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LOBBY BRIEFING: 4PM WEDNESDAY 14 NOVEMBER 2001
AFGHANISTAN
Phonecalls/Interviews
The Prime Minister’s Official Spokesman (PMOS) said that the Prime Minister had had a fifteen-minute telephone conversation with Chancellor Schroeder today. He had also had a twenty-minute conversation with President Bush. He was due to speak to President Musharraf later this afternoon.
The PMOS said that the Prime Minister had also done an interview for the BBC World Service Pashtun Radio Broadcast in Afghanistan. He had reiterated the importance of having a broad-based Government, the fact the West would not walk away from the people of Afghanistan and the need for the political process to move apace. Questioned as to whether the Prime Minister had used his interview to encourage Pashtuns to join the uprising against Taliban, the PMOS said that it was not for us to dictate how the Afghan people should respond to the current circumstances. The future of Afghanistan lay in their hands, but the Prime Minister had pointed out during the interview that a large number of Pashtuns in the south of the country appeared to be coming in behind the King, which was a commentary on the situation rather than a signal. The Prime Minister’s message was that Taliban regime was oppressive. It had denied the people of Afghanistan their fundamental rights for many years. If people were rising up of their own accord against them, then that was obviously to be very much welcomed.
Asked if we were receiving information from sources as to the whereabouts of bin Laden, the PMOS said it was important to recognise that bin Laden was an extremely elusive individual. Afghanistan was difficult terrain. But he repeated that if he was sitting in his cave at the moment, no doubt he would be feeling the walls closing in around him. However, it could take some time to bring him to justice. The Prime Minister had said in his interview with Pashtun Radio that the Afghan people would be pleased to see him leave the country. He had also flagged up the fact that a reward of several million pounds was already in existence.
UK Representation in Kabul
Asked for further details about UK diplomatic representation in Kabul, the PMOS said that it would be at senior Foreign Office level rather than Ambassadorial level. Asked how soon after its establishment would the Prime Minister visit Kabul, the PMOS said there were no plans for him to visit at this stage.
Future of Afghanistan
Asked about the meeting of representatives of the various ethnic and political groupings in Afghanistan and whether it would be in the UAE, the PMOS said we were not yet certain of the precise location for the meeting. It was unlikely to take place inside Afghanistan. Asked whether the UK would be represented at the conference, the PMOS said this would be a UN-convened conference. Under Brahimi’s initiative, all the different elements which could form a broad-based Government in the country would gather together. If we had a part to play and if it was considered necessary, no doubt the UK would be represented. It was for the UN to decide. There was also the 6+2 group, which included Afghanistan’s neighbours.
Put to him that although the Prime Minister had made it clear that the West would not walk away from Afghanistan, President Bush had yet to make this statement and whether this was an indication that the US was not prepared to provide the wherewithal to help Afghanistan in the long term, the PMOS said that this was unfair on the US. There was a recognition from the international community - which was shared by the US - that the reconstruction of Afghanistan was something which affected everyone. The Prime Minister and President Bush had discussed the possibility of a donors conference in their meeting last week which could take in issues of reconstruction. Everyone was live to the fact that we needed to leave behind a better Afghanistan than the one we had found. That meant the international community making a long-term commitment to the country. As Japan and other countries had indicated, it was clear the money was there to do this.
British Forces
Asked again about the role of the British forces which had been put on standby today and whether he was ruling out any offensive role, the PMOS said that soldiers were soldiers. It would be difficult to prescribe every circumstance in which they might be involved. Obviously there were a number of important tasks which would need to be undertaken inside Afghanistan, such as clearing humanitarian corridors and ensuring airfields were stable so that UN personnel and NGOs could get in. However, at this stage he was unable to go into further detail. Troops had yet to deploy. Questioned as to whether British troops would be involved in any offensive campaign, the PMOS pointed out that the military campaign was still ongoing. The Prime Minister had been spelling out this afternoon that while troops might be involved in different tasks, we couldn’t rule the possibility of other offensive operations.
Asked how close we were to making an announcement on deployment, the PMOS said that we were unable to give more details at this stage. The Prime Minister had set out clearly in his statement today some of the areas where we might have to be involved. No doubt he would want to have further discussion with coalition partners on this matter. The direction on travel was clear.
Asked whether the troops might be used to hunt down bin Laden, the PMOS said it was true that one of our key objectives was to bring Al Qaida and bin Laden to justice. Some of our forces were already on the ground working with the Northern Alliance. The campaign was unfolding step by step. That would continue.
Bin Laden
Asked what sort of ‘justice’ we were envisaging for bin Laden and whether he would be killed, the PMOS pointed out that the atrocity on 11 September had been carried out against the American people. Under Article 51, the US had a right to self-defence. Were bin Laden to end up in court, it would therefore be an American court. However, as the Prime Minister had commented in the past, this could prove an academic question. Bin Laden was obviously very heavily armed and heavily protected. That was something which needed to be considered when discussing the future.
Put to him he seemed to be implying that we hoped bin Laden would be killed, the PMOS disagreed. What he was signalling was that this could be an academic question. Obviously we would like bin Laden brought to justice. That would mean facing justice in a US courtroom. However, bin Laden was heavily protected and very well armed. He noted that he had never seen a picture of him without a Kalashnikov in his hand or somewhere in the background. It was clear that the people in Al Qaida who had carried out the attacks in the US, on the USS Cole and in Uganda had little respect for human life. If we were being realistic, it was probably unlikely that bin Laden would ever be handed over. Put to him that if bin Laden was captured by British forces it would be illegal to hand him over to an American court because of their use of the death penalty, the PMOS suggested journalists were getting a little bit ahead of themselves. We were not at that stage yet. He underlined it could be a long haul.
Evidence Document
Asked precisely how many of the hijackers had links with Al Qaida and that it didn’t provide much evidence about them, the PMOS said that the FBI investigation was continuing. He pointed out that on the very day we had published the first evidence document which had stated that three hijackers had links with Al Qaida, the number had in fact doubled - from three to six. We had always said that the information contained in the document was not the totality of the material available condemning bin Laden and Al Qaida. Indeed, it would be extraordinary to publish all the intelligence material available to us as it could jeopardise intelligence gathering and put people’s lives at risk. He pointed out that we had not acted against Al Qaida and bin Laden until a period of time had elapsed in which a detailed investigation had taken place and we had become convinced of their guilt. The more we heard from bin Laden in terms of the videos he sporadically threw out of his cave and the more demented his ravings, the more he was exposed for what he was. You didn’t have to be a legal expert to see that there was a connection between a spokesman for an organisation which advised people not to go into tall buildings because they were going to hijack more planes and bin Laden’s responsibility for 11 September as its head.
Airline Industry
Asked if the Government was slowly beginning to accept that it might have to pay compensation to British Airways and other airlines following 11 September, the PMOS said that the position had not changed. We recognised the difficulties the airline industry was facing. Where we had been able, we had given assistance. For example, we had provided insurance at a critical moment when it had looked as though planes would not be able to get into the air. We acknowledged that issues such as security had also been raised. Of course, we would continue to listen to the expressions of concern. However, it was a widely held view amongst other European countries that state subsidies were not the way forward.
WTO
The PMOS said that the Prime Minister had spoken to Prime Minister Vajpayee of India this morning in relation to the WTO talks in Doha, where 142 out of 143 countries were now in agreement, with India being the exception. We believed we had given a considerable amount in relation to textiles and their tariffs and quotas. We had also said that issues of investment and competition would only come in after two years in this trade round, rather than immediately as had initially been proposed. This was a big concession from the European perspective as was the CAP change. The Prime Minister hoped we could reach agreement now at Doha as we all stood to benefit.
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