4 April 2003
Prime Minister Tony Blair has said that the conflict in Iraq ‘is not a war against Iraq, it is a war against Saddam’. In an interview with an Arabian television channel he added that the war could only be finished once Saddam has gone.
In a seperate interview with the BBC World Service, the Prime Minister underlined the need for Iraq to be run by its own people. Read the interview.
Read the transcript of the interview with Abu Dhabi Television in full
Interviewer
Mr Prime Minister, at this stage when we see that the fight for Baghdad could be huge and probably costly for both soldiers and civilians, at this stage can we say that Tony Blair, we heard that he had persuaded President Bush not to attack Iraq immediately in the aftermath of 11 September, can Tony Blair today accept to stop the war under certain conditions?
Prime Minister
It is important now we finish and we finish our objective. This is not a war against Iraq, it is a war against Saddam, it is a war against him and his elite that have plundered the country, that live in wealthy palaces whilst the people go hungry, whilst 60% of the population of Iraq is dependent on food aid, who brutally repress and torture their people. It is a war against him and it can only be finished once he has gone, and it is important we do that and it is important we do that most of all for the Iraqi people who will need a different and better future.
Interviewer
Then we have to understand that you cannot accept any peace deal which would allow Saddam Hussein to remain in power?
Prime Minister
Absolutely not. There is no question of allowing him to remain, he has got to go. This is someone, who has not just defied the United Nations, built up weapons of mass destruction. But as we change the situation in Iraq, I know for many people in the Arab world they will see pictures of innocent civilians that are being killed as a result of allied coalition force action, but it is important to realise that we are doing everything we can to minimise those civilian casualties. And it is important to realise also what people don’t see, which is the hundreds of thousands of people that have died under Saddam and the people that have led lives of complete and total misery as a result of the brutality of that regime. And it is the regime that has got to go. And then Iraq can be run for the Iraqi people, by the Iraqi people, not by the US, not by Britain, not by any outside power.
Interviewer
Let’s talk now about this Iraqi resistance. If this resistance carries on and proves that the capture of Iraq is not only to fight Saddam Hussein but to also fight an unconvinced population for a long time, which kind of option would you accept to take in order to end the conflict?
Prime Minister
I don’t believe that is what is happening. What you have got is the security apparatus around Saddam. Now there are tens of thousands of those, but they are not the Iraqi population. In the south where the British troops are now patrolling some of these towns, even without their helmets but in ordinary berets and talking to the local people. The moment the local people know that Saddam has gone, they are coming out and they are talking about their experiences. And it is important to realise this. The repression of those people. The terror that they had in relation to his regime. Once that goes then I think you will find that the local people, the ordinary Iraqi people are out there talking about their experiences. And it is true they don’t then want the British or American troops to stay there a moment longer than we need to. We don’t want to stay there a moment longer than we need to. And as soon as we can get to an interim authority, run by Iraqis, we will do so.
Question
Everybody agreed with the British approach that Iraq should be governed as soon as possible by Iraqis rather than the coalition or the UN, but how specifically would Iraq be governed after the war?
Prime Minister
When the war stops and the conflict is won and Saddam is put out, obviously there will then be a process of transition because the country will be in a state without a government. But as soon as possible - I can’t say exactly when - but as soon as possible we should begin the process, along with the United Nations, of trying to build an Iraqi interim authority that will be representative of the Iraqi people. And that will then set out a future process that will lead I hope to a more democratic and more representative Iraq where human rights are properly respected. Where people have the freedom for example, in Iraq today to listen to your programme from Abu Dhabi Television would be an offence. In the Iraq in the future people should be able to listen to whatever programmes they want to listen to, there should be freedom there.
Question
Americans are giving the UN a certain role in Iraq post-Saddam Hussein, probably a humanitarian one but not a leading role. Are you admitting again that differences remain with the Americans about this question?
Prime Minister
No, we are both agreed that there should be a humanitarian role for the UN, but we are also both agreed that in order to be legitimate, a post-Saddam Iraqi government has got to be properly endorsed by the UN. So there is no difference between us. Now how you get there is a matter of working in partnership together.
Question
But did you agree also that a reconciliation with the UN should be within a credible answer to the question, was it a legitimate war?
Prime Minister
Well we believe it was, but you will never get the international community to agree on that I am afraid. There was a disagreement. But we came together last November, we gave Saddam a final opportunity to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. He didn’t do so, so we believe the action we have taken is legitimate. But I think what is important afterwards in the post-conflict Iraq is that we bring people back together again as far as possible within the United Nations and also within the Arab world.
Question
64% of British opinion, according to a recent poll, said the war will prove to have been justified only if Iraqi weapons of mass destruction are eventually found. The question is, if you don’t find any, what will be the British attitude?
Prime Minister
I have no doubt that we will. We have got absolutely no doubt that these weapons exist. But there has been a campaign of concealment by Saddam ever since he knew that UN inspectors were coming back into the country, and I have got absolutely no doubt that those weapons are there. But we were never going to be able to find them until the conflict is at a stage where the Iraqi scientists and experts working on these programmes are prepared to talk about them. And the reason why the UN inspectors were never going to be able to do their work is that they couldn’t be a detective agency. In Northern Ireland, for example, where the British, it is a different situation, we have a good peace process there now, but for 30 years British security forces were trying to find Republican Army weapons dumps, and couldn’t find them. You can never find these things unless you have the cooperation of the regime itself, and once we have the cooperation of the scientists and the experts, I have got no doubt that we will find them.
Question
If we admit that the allies will win the battle very soon and Saddam Hussein will collapse and an interim Iraqi government is in place, can you guarantee for the future of this country that a better regime will follow Saddam Hussein?
Prime Minister
Yes, I believe we can guarantee that, and that regime should be representative of all the Iraqi people. It should be respectful of their human rights. It should guarantee certain basic freedoms. It should make sure that the enormous oil wealth of Iraq is there for the Iraqi people, which is why we have said it should go in a trust fund for the Iraqi people, not for America, not for Britain, not for any outside power but for the Iraqi people. And I think that the tragedy of Iraq is that it is potentially an immensely prosperous country, but its people have been brutalised and virtually enslaved. When you think, as I say, that 60% of the population is dependent on food aid - 60% - and they have to get a voucher to go to a distribution point in order to get their food, that is a country that has been made literally a servant of a regime that lives in enormous luxury whilst its people live in poverty. Will we create a better regime, or will the Iraqi people be enabled to create a better regime? Yes, I have got no doubt about that at all.
Question
On the question of civilian casualties, you will tell me that allied forces have not targeted at any time the Iraqi civilians?
Prime Minister
Absolutely not. Now two things I would say to you on that. The first is I would just ask people to be really cautious of these reports. Those Baghdad street market bombs for example, we are sure that the first one is not coalition forces. We are still trying to check out the second one. Yet I understand when people see the carnage and the bloodshed they feel very angry about it. But I ask people not to treat these reports as correct until they are actually proven. And the second thing is to realise yes there will be innocent civilians that are killed, but we have done everything we possibly can to minimise them, and as I say measure that against the things that people don’t see, the inside of Saddam’s prisons, the Shia Muslims driven from their homeland, those in the north persecuted and killed, had chemical weapons used against them. All I ask is that people have a sense of balance, and I think you will find that for most people in Iraq, and this is a judgement that will be made later, life will be better.
Question
The reconstruction of Iraq after the collapse of Saddam Hussein is not as simple as it is humanitarian actions, it seems to be also a huge commercial operation, the Americans seem to give a big priority to their companies. Does this worry you?
Prime Minister
Again it is very important people get the facts on this. All this stuff in the media about the Americans giving out the contracts, all that has happened is this. American aid, legally under American law, is tied to American trade and commerce.So the actual American aid that America is giving to Iraq, they let the contracts for their own companies. That is a completely different thing from the reconstruction contracts for Iraq itself that will be let by the interim Iraqi authority and it will be up to them to decide, not the Americans, or the British, or anybody else to decide, but for them to decide who gets those contracts. So again a lot of these stories are not actually correct. There is no question of us trying to tie up British or American commercial interests with this.
Question
Let’s speak now about what we hope will be a positive outcome, I mean the rehabilitation of the peace process between Palestine and Israel. Have you any viable plan now for the Middle East issue?
Prime Minister
Yes we do. And again let me say to you I understand why people in the Middle East and in the Arab Muslim world are cynical about this issue, because they think well we are talking about it now because we are invading Iraq, but are we really serious about it. There is a viable set of proposals. It is contained in what is called the road map, which was drawn up by America, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations. When the new Palestinian Prime Minister puts his Cabinet in place, that road map will be published. That is a set of specific proposals leading to the creation of a two state solution: Israel, recognised by the Arab world, confident of its own security; and a viable Palestinian state. And I can assure you I regard this as every bit as much a priority for us as making sure we get rid of Saddam in Iraq.
Question
My last question is about the media coverage of the war. We heard that you have been very sensitive to the way certain broadcasters have covered this war. What caused this sensitivity?
Prime Minister
Well I don’t think you should ever be too sensitive when you are in my job about the media coverage. All I have said is that I just think it is important that it is balanced. And let me give you the best example of that, is that when people talk, and this is particularly so I think in the Arab world, about the things that they disagree with that America and Britain are doing.I just ask that there is some balance by talking to the people, say one of the 4 million Iraqi exiles, about what life is like under Saddam, just so that people get the other side of the story. And I hope that people realise that we are, whether they agree or disagree with this, doing this for the right motives. We are doing it because we genuinely believe that Iraq free of weapons of mass destruction will be a more stable partner for the Middle East and for the rest of the world. And in the end I would simply ask people at least to suspend their judgement about the type of Iraq that will be created until after the conflict and they see what we are actually trying to do for the Iraqi people.
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