Question and Answer Session
Question
You said yesterday that Zimbabwe was key. Are you disappointed that it hasn’t been sorted out today and it’s gone to these six countries?
Prime Minister
I think it was anticipated there would be some sort of process before we take a final decision, because obviously there are different views on Zimbabwe, but I hope and remain reasonably confident that the suspension of Zimbabwe will continue until such time as they comply with what the Commonwealth set out in terms of democracy, and human rights and proper governance, and I think that is an important signal for the Commonwealth to send out. Obviously it would be better to deal with it straight away, but I think it is fine provided we do actually deal with it tomorrow.
Question
And a lot of people think that your different attitude towards Pakistan is sheer hypocrisy because they are helping us on the international stage.
Prime Minister
In respect of Zimbabwe and Pakistan, both are suspended from the Commonwealth, and both have certain criteria they have got to meet in order for that suspension to be lifted. Now the truth is Zimbabwe has gone from bad to worse. Pakistan has actually made improvements. So the reason why I have a different attitude towards Pakistan is that the Pakistan government is making genuine moves towards democracy, is actually making strides in improving their economy. In Zimbabwe that was the opposite’s the case. So that is the reason why I feel differently about the two countries.
Question
What is the point of suspending Zimbabwe, nothing has changed, Mugabe is still in power, in fact things have got worse?
Prime Minister
There is a limit to what the Commonwealth and indeed anybody can do. Bodies like this can suspend people from their Councils, they can pass resolutions, but in the end the solution obviously has got to lie from within Zimbabwe itself. But the fact that the Commonwealth suspended Zimbabwe has had an important impact in sending a very clear signal as to what we regard as acceptable, what is unacceptable, and I don’t even think even the minimal discussions that are going on about Zimbabwe would be happening unless the Commonwealth had acted. But you know in the end of course there is always a limit to what we can do from the Commonwealth itself.
Question
Mugabe has said today that he would rather leave the club than compromise his sovereignty, and that he is prepared to use the police and the army to deal with anybody who resists his land reforms. What would you say to him?
Prime Minister
It is a decision for him as to whether he wants Zimbabwe to leave the Commonwealth, but what is important for the Commonwealth is to say to Mr Mugabe, that his behaviour in Zimbabwe is totally unacceptable, that until he complies with democracy, human rights, proper governance, Zimbabwe should remain suspended from the Commonwealth. And that land reform in Zimbabwe, everyone accepts that that should happen. Britain has set aside money to help it happen, but it should happen through the United Nations programme, not in a way that ends up abusing the rule of law and putting money in the pockets of Mugabe’s henchmen.
Question
And him personally seems determined to dig in his heels and stay.
Prime Minister
That is a decision for him. I think the decision here though is to make it quite clear to him that that is unacceptable so far as the Commonwealth is concerned.
Question
…Zimbabwe before the next CHOGM (Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting)
Prime Minister
I think we should carry on on the path that we have got. This is the most the Commonwealth can do. We adopted a set of principles on democracy, and the rule of law and proper governance, ironically set out in Harare, and those principles have got to be adhered to. So whether Zimbabwe comes back into the Commonwealth depends on the basic principles that the Commonwealth believes in - democracy, the rule of law, respect for human rights - being adhered to. If they are, then Zimbabwe comes back in, if not they shouldn’t come back in. And that is why the test in a sense is first of all for the Commonwealth to stand firm on those principles, and secondly for Zimbabwe as to whether it is going to comply with them.
Question
…your stance on tuition fees will finish you off as Prime Minister. What
do you say to them?
Prime Minister
I believe that the more that the public hears the argument about university finance, the more that they realise that the fairest way to widen access and to preserve British universities as a great British national asset, is to get rid of all up-front fees and have the graduate make a fair repayment into the system once they graduate, and that is better than putting up the taxes for the whole of the population, which I think would be unfair.
Question
So no chance of Clare Short’s elegant succession?
Prime Minister
I think I have commented on that many times.
Question
… winning the battle with the public, why are your MPs so far behind?
Prime Minister
I think this is an argument where you need to get into the details to convince people, and you need to take people through stages of an argument. Do we need more of our young people able to get high quality university education? Answer yes. Do we need to widen access and fund universities properly? Answer yes. Then the question is well how best do you pay for that? And I think it is best to pay for it by getting rid of all up-front fees so that the families and the students don’t pay anything at all whilst they are going through university, but say to the students once you graduate, and linked to your ability to pay as a graduate, you make a modest contribution back into the system.
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