6 July 2006
Welfare minister Jim Murphy took part in a webchat with the Downing Street website, to discuss the Welfare Reform Bill.
Thanks to all those who asked questions.
You can read the transcript below.
Jim says: Good Afternoon. This is Jim Murphy, Minister of State, Welform and Reform. I’m sitting in the Cabinet Office in Whitehall and looking forward to answering your questions on plans for welfare reform.
d bennington: so many attempts have been made to address incapacity benefit and dla for that matter. why should the public believe that this reform is going to produce the firm but fair results and resolutions that are needed?
danny cardiff
Jim replies: Thanks for the question. There has been a lot of attempts in the past and you are right some of them haven’t been as successful as they should have been. Success in these reforms, I think, will rely on all of us working together, with Government, with business, with welfare advisers, charities and the voluntary sector, offering support to those who are on incapacity benefit and want the chance to work. My general view is that many of those on incapacity benefit have been written off in the past and haven’t been supported. The difference in these reforms is that we are providing investment to make them work. We are trying to have a real partnership with employers to encourage them to take on previous incapacity benefit claimants and we’ll also provide specific personal support and advice to claimants who are able to try again to re-enter the world of work.
Steve Winder: Mr Moderator how long is Jim here for?
Moderator replies:Jim will be here until 1.30pm
murray whyte: I feel that the Government has not donw enough research into Incapcity Benefit and it’s reforms.
At present I am on Incapacity Benefit because I have Osteoarthritis in both knees, Ankylosing spondylitis, and Ischaemic Heart Disease.
I would love to work but my conditions limit me as to what I am capable of; I can’t do anything physical, I can neither stand nor sit for any length of time and I no longer drive because of the fear of having a Heart Attack or stroke while doing so.
I understand that there are a lot of fraudsters out there that need to be dealt with and perhaps the Welfare Benefits reform is the way to do it, however, it will not suit someone like myself.
Your comments are appreciated.
M Whyte
Jim replies: Dear Murray thank you for your email. I have just responded to another question saying that we need to support every individual and part of this is about getting a proper understanding of everyone’s condition, be it physical disability, mental health illness or a combination. I am working with other Ministers, particularly in the Department of Health to make sure that GPs and other health professionals are able to play their part . Our policies are not aboutf orcing people to seek work or undertaking work related activities detrimental to their health conditions. We want to offer people with the right support to get a chance to work again. As you might already be aware the proposals we publish this week will come into effect in 2008 and will effect new claimants. Current claimants will have their benefit levels protected. But if any current claimant wishes to volunteer for the personalised support to increase their chances to get into work then they will be free to do so.
JANET TURNER: How are you going to educate employers into employing people with disibilities?
Jim replies: Janet. Thanks for your email which addresses one of the most important aspects of our reforms. I know that there are a lot of employers who are really active in supporting people coming off of incapacity benefits and getting into work. But I know there is a lot more to be done and I am working with the CBI and other business organisations to try improve awareness and attitudes to taking on people who have been out of work for some time.
Gareth Morris: How do you expect to get 1 million disabled and chronially sick people back into work when there are currently 1.61 million able bodied currently people looking for work?
Jim replies: Thanks for your email Gareth. Our plan is to have a million fewer on incapacity benefit over a 10 year period. Your question highlights that much of the reforms rely on having continued economic stability that means there are job opportunities. I think the most recent figures show there are 600,000 unfilled job vacancies in the country and what I want to see is that people on incapacity benefit are given a chance to have a level plaiying field to get into work. I know the one million figures is an enorumous challenge, but there is no point in a major reform like this to set an easily achievable goal.
tristan cropley:how much will this re branding cost the tax payer?
Jim replies: Thanks for your email Tristan. It has nothing to do with rebranding. It is about an entirely new approach to welfare. I don’t want to get involved in an email blizzard on statistics, but the evidence through our successful Pathways to Work pilots is that on average if tcosts £800 to get someone off incapacity benefit and into work and the long term savings are £8,000. Thanks again for your email.
Michael Sweeney:What has worked well in Pathways to Work pilots and what level of outcomes are they achieving?
Jim replies: Thanks Michael. You may already be aware that we also announced on Tuesday the national roll out to pathways on work. The evidence is that pathways to work is probably the most successful initiative ever in supporting those into work with 25,000 people entering work. In Pathways areas people are ten times more likely taking up one of the forms of back to work help than those not in pathways. I want to learn the lessons of pathways and repeat this success throughout the country.
paul: The principle of targeting new claimants is surely wrong.
This means someone who has recovered sufficiently from their illness and is able to work will be proteted merely on the basis of the date that they claimed? rather than on the medical evidence!
Jim replies:Thanks for your email Paul. Certainly this is not about writing off people who have recovered but its about supporting people early in their claim and people currently on IB will be able to volunteer for the new support on offer.
Hannah :It is hard to ask questions on the bill considering so much of the detail will be decided in regulations after the bill has passed. How can we tell what will happen when so little is on the face of the bill?
Jim replies: Thanks for your email Hannah. You have clearly followed how the Parliamentary process works. You’re right in saying that this Bill in common with other social security bills sets out the broad powers. Much of the detail will be provided by subsequent regulations. I want to explain as much of the detail as I can as we take the Bill through Parliament so everyone knows how the scheme will work in detail.
Steve Winder: Jim you have just (with your last response to M Whyte) answered most of my Fears! Why is the New Claimants part of this not mentioned in all the hype as well so people like myself don’t worry every time i hear of Benefit Reforms?
Jim replies: Dear Steve, thanks for all your questions. I have tried to make clear that this will apply to new claimants from 2008 and we include it in our press releases, but sometimes some of the detail doesn’t always get carried in every newspaper or broadcast. That’s why I am looking at ways in which I can do more through the internet to provide all of the facts about our proposals.
adrian cirket: Hi Why don’t the Government or Benefit Agency promote their success in countering fraud more? Equally why not great information to the public about where to phone or e-mail and explain what fraud is?
Jim replies: Dear Adrian, thanks for your email. We do take this issue seriously and there have been reductions in recent years. We have also have public information campaigns, a Targetting Fraud website (www.targetingbenefitfraud.gov.uk/), and a National Benefit Fraud Hotline which is 0800 854 440, and Textphone 0800 328 0512.
Joan Richards: Sickness and Invalidity Benefit relies a lot on the GPs assessment of the individual case, and in these days of large and busy surgeries how will you make certain that the GP is not being duped by that individual?
Jim replies: Thanks for getting in touch Joan. I know from my own experience as a Member of Parliament for 9 years that the assessment process is crucial. The reformed personal capability assessment aims to make sure that we properly assess each and every individual’s condition right first time. At the moment a large number of assessments end up in appeal. We need to be better at assessing people’s conditions and what claimants can do. in the past I feel that we have simply sought to validate someone’s incapacity rather than thinking about what people can still do if provided with the proper support.
Paul Jones: As someone who works for DWP it is my concern and that of many colleagues that the new reforms will target new claimants who are geniunely unable to work thtough a spell of ill health. The long term sick (say over two years) many of whom are able to work will be ignored because they are more difficult to get back into work.
Is this the case?
Jim replies: Dear Paul Thanks for your email. I know that much of this reform and change in the way that we support people who have previously been written off can only be achieved through the continued professionalism of DWP staff and others. Our plans are not about forcing people who are not able to work to go out and work. In fact we know that there will be some people for whom it would be unreasonable to ask them to undertake work related activity. We have also said that because those people will be on benefit for longer that we will pay the new employment and support allowance at a higher rate for them.
Kevin j Arnold: The minister says 2 strikes within 5 years and benefit will be withdrawn " does this mean partners and children get penalised too if so how long for and how can they live?
Jim replies: Thanks Kevin. Currently there is a two strikes rule for people convicted of benefit fraud of two offences within a 3 year period. We want to extend to that to two convictions within a 5 year period. The current legislation makes provision to apply a fixed 13 week benefit disqualification period, but for vulnerable groups or if particular harship would occur then benefit would be reduced by 20% or 40%.
Gareth Morris: It would seem from the draft bill that the stick is going to be much larger than the carrot to get disabled and chronically sick people back to work. Is this true?
Jim replies:Thanks Gareth. I am tempted to reply in one word, to say "no". Our approach is that this is a something for something deal. In return for a real change in the way in which we support people claiming benefits because of sickness and disability, there is also a responsibility on the claimant to take up some of that support. The major exception of course will be those who are assessed as it being unreasonable to expect them to undertake work related activity.
A Murray: Does the minister intend at any point to publish statistics on whether the people who have taken part in Pathways to Work have actually managed to sustain full-time long-term employment or how many have had to give up their work and return to incapacity benefit?
Jim replies:thanks for the email about Pathways. There has recently been independent research published about the effectiveness of Pathways which you may wish to read. The link to the research is www.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rrs2006.asp#pathwaysquant.
Bernard Peel: Dear Sir,
can you tell me how this will make any difference at all to those who do not wish to work.I know of a few that
are signed on the sick,when called for a medical,they then sign back on the dole,after a short time they then go back on the sick.This has been going on for years,how do you
intend to stop this type of abuse,i know of three cases in
the area were i live that do this,and they have been getting away with it for the last ten years that i know of.
It seems no matter what the government do,they
find a way round the system.I honestly cant see that any
any change that you make will make any difference at all.
Regards Bernard Peel
Jim replies: Dear Bernard. Thanks for getting in touch. The new approach to welfare will mean that all new claimants will have a personal adviser who’s job it would be to mentor and support claimants so that they are more job ready. I would anticipate that with this personal adviser approach the type of circumstance that you mention would be discovered and we could act on it. For those who refuse to take up support, and for whom we have assessed that it is reasonable that they should undertake some sort of work related activity, we will be introducing sanctions. The experience of Pathways is that this has been necessary in a very small number of cases.
Andy Wotherspoon: 40% of IB claimants have Mental Health problems, some may be stress related but many have long term or permanent conditions so any attempt to change the person is bound to fail and will create further stress & anxiety for that person.
Therefore other factors must change - work format. working hours, timekeeping rules, support in the workplace, and how the disabled are treated by the benefit system. Those only able to work part time must see some reward for their effort (currently tax is due on earnings, then HB & CT claw back 85% of the remainder) - this is too complex, always calculated in arrears and demoralising as a permanent arrangement)
Any serious attempt to get them into paid work must first create job opportunities, a suitable work environment and a benefit system that is simple and designed to reward effort instead of penalising it.
Can you say how the proposed changes will achieve this?
Jim replies: thanks Andy. I agree with the points you raise. That’s why we are working very closely with the Mental Health charities and organisations so that we get the detail of our plans right. This isn’t just a challenge for the Government but a challenge to the nation about attitudes to mental health, particularly when as you rightly say mental health is the single biggest reason for people curently going into incapacity benefit.
Jenni Lynas: Jim
I have recently returned to work after a long period of treatment for breast cancer and have found it hard to get back onto full time hours. It would have been helpful if I had been able to return slowly and continue to claim Incap for the days I was unable to work. Also, sometimes people in my position can only manage part time work, but I cannot live on a part time wage, so the choice is either to stay on Incap or go back to full time work and perhaps endanger my long term recovery. I would appreciate your comments.
Jim replies:Dear Jenni. Thanks for your email. I’m sure you understand that I can’t comment on all the details of the levels of your part time or full time earnings. But our approach is that no-one should be better on benefit than in work. It may be that you are entitled to tax credits, child tax credits or support with your housing costs. Not everyone is aware that housing benefit can still be paid when in work (depending on income). Perhaps I could suggest that you chat with your local Citizens Advice Bureau to have a benefit entitlement check. Alternatively your local Council might have a Welfare Rights Officer for you to speak to to make sure that you are aware of the variety of financial support that may be available.
PAUL:As these reforms are looking at the long term goals, How can they be fully supported over this period considering that civil service head count is being reduced year on year? Its hard enough to get an appointment with someone in the jobcentre as it is without more people trying to access the service.
Jim replies: Thanks Paul. We have announced the national roll out of Pathways this week which is so important to our welfare reform proposals. In making the announcement we said that the future roll out of Pathways will be done in partnership with the private and voluntary sector and this will provide increased capacity throughout the country. We have been working with these sectors for a long time. The knowledge and expertise in helping people on incapacity benefit is invaluable.
Jim says: Thanks everyone for all your questions. This is the first time I have ever done anything like this and I’ve enjoyed it. I think I’ll do it again as the Bill goes through Parliament to keep you in touch with all developments. You can also visit www.dwp.gov.uk to find out about the Bill.
delicious
digg
facebook
